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I find the idea that "withholding support is a show of strength" or that "not voting will show them!" to be incredibly annoying.  Voting in the primaries is a show of strength.  Next to nobody votes in primaries, so showing up there in numbers matters.

For the general, staying home just lumps you in with the undifferentiated mass of non-voters, most of whom don't vote for all kinds of random reasons - such as total apathy.

The crazy Republican base has so much power over the business and financier wing of the party because they show up for every election, rain or shine.  Leftists?  Not so much.

by Zwackus on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 06:42:56 PM EST
These folks don't feel like they have a party. The one thing Yves might demonstrate is that there are more than enough well to do individuals in the USA to make a Progressive Socialist Party viable. Sanders has already demonstrated that there are enough voters to available to make it a major factor in elections - even if not enough to overpower the built in barriers in the Democratic Party primary process.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere." (But it helps!)
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 07:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"even if not enough to overpower the built in barriers in the Democratic Party primary process. " You mean those outrageous barriers which by and large ensure that the candidate who gets the most votes is most likely to win the nomination? :-)

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 08:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, what I am referring to is that, repeatedly, Sanders has to get at least 55% of the popular vote to even break even on the elected delegates. Some states were worse. This doesn't, as best as I can tell, even involve the 'super-delegates'. Then there is the anything but evenhanded approach of the DNC, the debate schedule. DNC failure to contest any Republican manipulations that disproportionately affected Sanders, as in Arizona, etc. Then there is the fact that CA registered independents had to know to ask for a Democratic absentee ballot in order to get a ballot that included the presidential race, even though independents are allowed to vote in the Democratic primary, and the same thing probably applies if they vote in person on Tuesday. Newly registered Sanders voters, especially those who register independent, just somehow face an obstacle course not there for Clinton voters.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere." (But it helps!)
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 11:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a bit harsh, but, the biggest reason they don't have a party is that they can't be bothered to really get involved in local electoral politics.  Batshit crazy idiots get together to frequently overturn the will of the Republican party in local elections through organization, persistance, and attendance - and they own Louis Gohmert, Alan West, and the other members of the crazy caucus.  

Yes, getting involved is hard, but that's what makes a party "yours."  If one sits on the sidelines, doing nothing more than voting and occasionally writing a check, than you have to take what you can get.

One does not just waltz into the party and expect it to do your bidding or support your positions, no matter how "correct" they may be.  That is not how groups work.

by Zwackus on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 08:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but these wealthy individuals have a sense of entitlement that the Democratic Party exists only to do their bidding despite the fact that they only bother to vote once every four years and do nothing else to build up the party. To call these elitists "progressives" devalues the term, whatever their policy preferences.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 08:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I expect this to change and probably starting soon. The people about whom Yves is writing are busy professionals, but they are very likely to see that now they do have to take the time and effort to become effective in the political arena. And, if Hillary gets the nomination, they will have available a cadre of experienced people from whom to draw - those who supported Bernie this cycle. Every presidential candidate has to build his own machine and it then becomes part of his political capital.

Plus, I expect Sanders to keep his volunteer organization active. One thing the people Yves is discussing can and almost certainly will do is to support financially Sander's efforts to have a continuous campaign and to focus on electing progressives to Congress and the Senate. I hope they have the wisdom to extend those efforts to local politics as well. I expect an alternative to the DNC to emerge by Jan. '17 - whether is identifies as a group within the Democratic Party or as a new party. How thing go at the convention concerning the platform, the rules by which future primaries will be conducted, etc. will have a role to play in determining if and how enthusiastically current primary opponents of Clinton support her in the fall.

Given what a disaster Trump appears to be creating the DNC could well decide that, once more, progressives don't matter and they don't have to concede anything. I hope this is not the case. I would like to see the Democratic Party turn more progressive and become the instrument for fundamental change as it was in the '30s.    

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere." (But it helps!)

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2016 at 11:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope to be positively surprised, but do not expect it.  I've known a fair number of American far-left sorts, and far too many of them are content to sit on the sidelines and let things burn.  Both sides are the same, the system is rigged, don't bother, etc.

Seeing this attitude creeping into the Bernie crew drove me nuts, because for the first time in a while there was a real campaign for a moderate leftist with actual supporters showing up and campaigning and voting.  Unfortunately, for far too many of them, I think it's much more likely that the will end up in the "why bother, the system is corrupt" camp, rather than the "we need to keep fighting" camp.

by Zwackus on Fri Jun 3rd, 2016 at 06:49:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obviously I have no privileged viewpoint from half the world away but I'm pretty sure this time is different. Anger is a powerful motivator if it is directed and not accompanied with a feeling of powerlessness. And nothing helps against feelings of powerlessness like numbers. So I don't get the calls for everyone to calm down. Everyone should stay angry, especially at local party elites and throw them out if they don't fall in line.

Nur der Euro bleibt stehen - von Berlin bis Athen - Georg Kreisler
by generic on Tue Jun 7th, 2016 at 04:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And, we do not know the extent to which some of these very 'highly knowledgeable financial insiders' have already supported Sanders or how active they have been. I don't always follow her blog and certainly nave not been following the comments section. I do know that here in Mountain Home AR attorneys who support Clinton have, in the past lent the use of their offices and telephone system to, for instance, Democratic organizers who supported former US Senator Mark Prior in 2014, as I was one of the volunteers phone banking. Though Prior was hardly my ideal candidate he certainly was vastly better than odious Tom Cotton.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere." (But it helps!)
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2016 at 12:01:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not exactly true.  The DLC and its Blue Dog DINOs hijacked the party in 1986, turning it into the GOP with a smiley-face button.  We progressives have been trying to get back to the table ever since but have been blocked by piles of money and by procedural rules that are increasingly hostile to any grass-roots activity.  Everything has come from on high as dictated to the DNC by its corporate owners.  Nothing is allowed to come up from the ranks.  It's the main reason the Democratic Party is laughably short of local candidates.
by rifek on Fri Jun 3rd, 2016 at 06:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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